Wiki Challenge Part 2

[czardas]

 I do not understand context of your statement can you elaborate ?

 

AutoIt should be the ultimate winner.

EDIT:

I forgot to say: Congrats czardas.

 

Thanks.

Edit

I forgot to say thanks jaberwacky - you played a very important role and did a great job.

[mLipok]

As for the low turnout:

I think it helped a little bit entries in the signature, the members of this forum.

 

That's good advice on the future.

 

 

edit: btw. you should change your signature as I do

Edited February 23, 2015 by mlipok

[TheSaint]

You know, in the early stages of deliberating what sort of example, I did fleetingly think about automating the Calculator, but decided it would be too boring, however czardas came up with a great drawcard  using Leap Year, which was outside the box I thought and catchy.

Then I actually started an example using the WordPad and doing automated Font changes. However, that got too tricky with file type and number of lines, and so I went back to my old idea of the Notepad, and rewrote most of what I'd done.

I tried to use commands that a non-programmer could look at and have some idea of what it might be (without comments).

I tried to use as many common type of actions as would attract and appeal to someone showing an interest, to show them how easy they are (creating a directory and a file, deleting both, and running/executing a program).

I also wanted/needed to do some automation stuff, and nothing comes simpler than the Send command to a text editor.

I thought it was important to show the benefit and simple usage of variables.

Then like czardas did, I wanted to add a cool element, which I though a Loop would be to a newbie, as well as using Input, Replace and StringMid and working with individual text characters.

The hard part for me, was making it all look simple in just 32 lines.

The declarations and assignments especially made that hard.

My original script, was 38 lines or 43 with a few blank lines.

In the end, I cramped the assignments and declarations into as few lines as reasonable, though they definitely did not look good visually, and I'm a great believer in blank lines between certain things.

It was at that point, that I decided to add comments, and then eventually (probably foolishly) added them to every line, quite simplistically at times and not entirely correct, as BrewManNH noted, but trying to be simple enough for the possible limited understanding of a newbie. No doubt a tricky thing, and as I said about some other elements, that I thought were not important in the overall context, because the correct usage or understanding would come in good time.

Edited February 23, 2015 by TheSaint

[czardas]

I didn't know it would be a leap year calculation at first. I just thought to myself, what number can I type into the calculator that would be easy to read and understand. That's when I came up with the idea of using a macro. Only then did I ask myself what can I do with it? That's when I figured that a leap year is something that everyone can relate to.

[TheSaint]

Oops, how could I have forgotten to thank jaberwacky, who has done an excellent job.

Thanks buddy!

You too czardas, orchestrating a lot of this.

Thanks!

All for a worthy cause.

[aleph01]

Greetings!

I just voted, but I had to make an assumption.  I was unsure whether to vote for  code for an absolute beginner in coding, or to vote for code for someone who codes, but is new to AutoIt and could use more advanced concepts, mostly needing only syntax examples.  In the end I went with what I felt like would be more appropriate for the absolute beginner.

Thanks!

_aleph_

[TheSaint]

Unbelievably, we were (mostly) trying to cater to the three main types of beginner, that I mentioned earlier, but should probably err on the side of the absolute beginner.

A very difficult task, as is evident ... and even more evident if you try for yourself as an experienced coder.

Dumbing down code and thought, is not as easy as it would seem.

[mikell]

Unbelievably, we were (mostly) trying to cater to the three main types of beginner, that I mentioned earlier, but should probably err on the side of the absolute beginner.

 

In your opinion, what kind of beginner will go to read the Autoit Wikipedia page ? 

[TheSaint]

I imagine all types.

I know when I want to find the definitive explanation about something or someone, that is where I go.

It is also a good place to find links to the real homepage, reviews, etc.

In the end though, it is probably down to where a beginner might hear about AutoIt ... though one imagines they will probably end up at the Wiki at some point early on, either via the forum link or a less direct route.

Edited February 24, 2015 by TheSaint

[mikell]

I understand this approach, but I'm not convinced that the real content of the sample code is much important

Maybe I'm completely wrong but I think that a Wikipedia Autoit page should essentially provide an overview of the particular Autoit syntax, and an overview of the Autoit abilities, e.g. the code to create a gui along with a picture of this gui

[TheSaint]

I think it already does something like that in the tutorials.

And I think it is needed, but also a simple example first and then more advanced examples.

I know when I have looked at other languages, the first thing I look at is the syntax in an example, and how easy it is to understand, plus how logically I could work with it from memory.

First impressions are important ... as are first pages.

Edited February 24, 2015 by TheSaint

[zalomalo]

Why this?:

MsgBox($MB_OK, "Msg", "Avoid touching the keyboard or mouse during automation", 6)

When you can block keyboard and mouse during automation ?

[BrewManNH]

In Vista+ you have to use #RequireAdmin to be able to use BlockInput, not every user will be an admin.

[RTFC]

Errrm,  sorry to rain on this jolly parade, but the winning Example #6 is factually wrong. In the Gregorian calendar most of us have been using since the late 16th/early 17th century (yes, I'm that old ), a year is a leap year when it is divisible by four, UNLESS it is also divisible by 100 (not a leap year), UNLESS it is also divisible by 400 (leap year).

Edited February 28, 2015 by RTFC

[czardas]

Sorry I have been quite busy with the music business lately. I still need to look at, and get my head around, the formatting on wikipedia.

RTFC - Yes example 6 is only good for the next 84 years. I was aware of the fact. It also needs one extra line to be 100% correct regarding coding.

[TheSaint]

LOL - I can just imagine what state most of us will be in by then.   or

Hard to imagine what AutoIt v87.0.0 or thereabouts, might be like.

I doubt any of us will be Leaping about.

[czardas]

Tis done!

LOL - I can just imagine what state most of us will be in by then.   or

Hard to imagine what AutoIt v87.0.0 or thereabouts, might be like.

I doubt any of us will be Leaping about.

 

We'll see, or maybe not. I'll be happy if the changes I made last a year or two. JohnOne, I've made a few further modifications. Anything you want to change back, you know you don't need to ask.

I think this has been an interesting and successful experiment, different from the usual coding activities. I hope more things like this will happen in the future with your support. I learned a lot by your participation, and would have done so in any event.

[Chimaera]

Ive tried to not involve myself in this debate but i thought i would mention something that i find as a beginner / medium

I looked at some of the examples and i cant believe some of them were even submitted for a beginner, geez how difficult they seem... (mainly 2,4 and 5)

The one problem which makes examples for beginners difficult is the perspective of the writer

Everyone that writes for the helpfile or wherever is in most cases a really good coder but, when you write you will naturally assume that oh they will know that or this without me saying it.

I have noticed as AutoIt has evolved the helpfile has become more techy in the examples. Not that im saying it AutoIt shouldn't evolve it seems from my perspective to be growing into a 'proper' language from what i remember in the beginning when i first started.

Due in part to a fantastic helpfile as well as the work from the devs and jon

But don't assume everybody has evolved along with it, if i had come to AutoIt now i would be really struggling.

I seem to be atm helping less and asking more because its getting more difficult as i find it and as the language changes.

Yes im aware i don't have the drive or inclination to learn every nuance of the language, i use it less than 1% in my daily life, a bit of automation to assist in repetitive tasks that i have to do.

And i would be the first to say im not a coder / programmer. The few things i have created are meaningless to the larger community, but they do what i need which is why there were made.

If this hadn't been a helpfull community i would not have come as far as i have.

So please don't forget the perspective of the beginner is really important.

[JLogan3o13]

That is and always has been part of the endless debate; what constitutes a beginner? Someone may be a "beginner" with AutoIt but just naturally picks it up, and does have the drive/inclination to read through the help file to fill in the gaps in their knowledge. Someone else may be a very infrequent user of the product, and thus not really interested in learning much more than how to complete the one task sitting before them at this very moment.

It comes down to the community taking its best shot at content such as this; I believe it categorically impossible to please everyone or speak to every knowledge level. But personally, I think we should err on the side of complexity in this instance. We don't want people's eyes bleeding when they look at the examples, but if something doesn't make sense, we hope we're attracting those willing enough to crack open the help file and learn more.

[Chimaera]

I understand and we dont want to be making AutoIt just for the less gifted like me else it will go nowhere

Here's an example from the current helpfile of what i mean

On the MsgBox page we have the age old battle of magic numbers vs names and yes im in favour of names but i have a mSgBox that requires

$MB_YESNO and $MB_ICONWARNING which is 52 but no where that i can see tells me how to join the names together?

If i try $MB_YESNO & $MB_ICONWARNING it ignores the first one, if i use 52 it works fine..

This is the sort of thing that drives me crazy

So i have to use numbers as i dont know how to join them properly

Surely it should say to join names instead of numbers do this... etc etc so i understand how to achieve it?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Chimaera