Need help detecting a 3-D object in a 3-D environment ( forum-policy abiding edition :) ) - NOT!

[WhatTicking]

<snip>

Edited September 1, 2014 by Melba23
Link removed and title altered

[Bert]

Not gonna happen for the INTENT of what you want to do with it has NOT CHANGED since you want to use it for a game. Reported.

Edit:

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Reopening a request in attempting to get around a locked thread - also not allowed.

What part of no game automation is not clear to you? It isn't gonna happen, no matter what you do to twist the words around. We know you want to use it for game automation. So please do not ask again. And no, we will NOT tel you to go to a different site to get help. No game automation means NO GAME AUTOMATION. PERIOD.

Any attempt to do so will get you banned by a moderator. No if, and, or buts.

Edited August 31, 2014 by MBALZESHARI

[WhatTicking]

Hmm, I was under the impression that everyone was in agreement that there is nothing inherently unethical about automating a game (one that allows it in its EULA), but that the forum simply had to take a zero tolerance policy on discussing the automation of games (likely due to the difficulty in differentiating the legality from game to game).

I see no reason that this thread should be problematic, neither in the letter nor the spirit of the law.  This thread neither discusses video games in any way (and I went to a lot of trouble to make sure of it), nor will it lead to the violation of any video game's EULA.

I would agree entirely that my intent has not changed, but the ethical nature of my intent wasn't in question in the first place, was it?  My thread was closed, rightly, because it violated the forum rules.  This one does not.  And while I agree that "reopening" a thread to "get around" a lock is unacceptable, certainly opening a new thread with the forum rule violation removed is not, right?  I know I haven't been here nearly as long as you, but I wish you'd try to see this from both perspectives.  You're welcome to report the thread, and the moderators can correct me if I've represented things incorrectly, but certainly demonizing me in caps isn't necessary, is it?

Edited August 31, 2014 by WhatTicking

[Bert]

Look, you want to be argumentative, that is your choice. Arguing with the rules we have here only will result in one thing - you getting banned. You can argue with a moderator all you want. You have already had TWO moderators tell you the subject you wish to gain information on isn't going to happen. Your intent on using the information you seek is to automate a game.  That is the reason the thread WILL be locked, you will receive a warning and if you try to ask again you will get banned.

 

I've been here 10 years. I've seen thousands like you who think "I see nothing wrong with what I'm asking."

 

Well, so far it is moderators 1000+, users like you zero. Been there, seen it, got the t-shirt. Now if you want to see these losers argue, I suggest you look here and look at the 700+ folks who thought they could argue with a moderator, run afoul of the forum rules, and still be allowed to do what they please here. Many of them thought as you now do. NONE of them are here now. Is that enough of a hint for you to drop it? If not, I'm sure a moderator will see to it you get a one way ticket to Banville.

 

Oh, and obviously you did NOT read the forum rules judging by your last post when you were told in your last locked thead to read the forum rules. Seeing how you do not click on links, allow me to post them for you. I called out the rule you seem to be having trouble with in red.

Forum Rules

We want the forum to be a pleasant place for everyone to discuss AutoIt scripting, and we also want to protect the reputation of AutoIt. So we ask you to respect these simple rules while you are here:

Forum posting:

1. Do not ask for help with AutoIt scripts, post links to, or start discussion topics on the following subjects:

• Malware of any form - trojan, virus, keylogger, spam tool, "joke/spoof" script, etc.
• Bypassing of security measures - log-in and security dialogs, CAPTCHAs, anti-bot agents, software activation, etc.
• Automation of software/sites contrary to their EULA (see Reporting bullet below).
• Launching, automation or script interaction with games or game servers, regardless of the game.
• Running or injecting any code (in any form) intended to alter the original functionality of another process.
• Decompilation of AutoIt scripts or details of decompiler software.

This list is non-exhaustive - the Moderating team reserve the right to close any thread that they feel is contrary to the ethos of the forum.

2. Do not post material that could be considered pornographic, violent or explicit - or express personal opinions that would not be acceptable in a civilized society. Do not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this site.

3. To protect this community, any files posted by you are subject to checks to ensure that they do not contain malware. This includes, but is not limited to, decompilation and reverse engineering.

4. Do not flame or insult other members - and just report the thread to a Moderator (see below) if you are so attacked.

5. Do not PM other users asking for support - that is why the forum exists, so post there instead.

6. Do not create multiple accounts - if you inadvertently created multiple accounts then contact a Moderator to close the unwanted ones.

7. Do not repost the same question if the previous thread has been locked - particularly if you merely reword the question to get around one of the prohibitions listed above.

The Moderating team will do their best to act in fair and reasonable manner. Sanctions will only be applied as a last resort and any action taken will be explained in the relevant thread. If you feel that you have been unfairly moderated then contact the Moderator concerned via PM rather than opening a new thread to complain. But do be aware that we have the final word - the rules are set out by the site owner and you are only welcome here if you respect his wishes.

Reporting:

If you feel a post needs Moderator attention, please use the "Report" button at the bottom of the post. You can then enter details of why you have reported the post - but there is no need to include the content of the post as that is done automatically. The Moderating team will be alerted to the post and will deal with it as soon as they can.

If you suspect a EULA violation, do not expect the Moderating team to do all the work - please provide some evidence in the report such as a copy of (or link to) the EULA in question, as well as the section you believe has been violated.

Finally, please do not enter into an argument with the original poster - that is why we have Moderators.

Spam:

Please do not react to spam in any way other than reporting it. Multiple reports are combined by the forum software, so there is no need to announce that you have reported the spam - in fact doing so only increases the work for the Moderator who deals with it.

This clear enough for you now?

Edited August 31, 2014 by MBALZESHARI

[WhatTicking]

I feel that I have been nothing but respectful and accepting of the moderation decisions that I have encountered so far.  The only thing I have done is ask a question about my moderation.  It is not my goal to argue with moderators.  My proposition to you was not just "I see nothing wrong with what I'm asking," but "I see nothing wrong with what I'm asking, AND what I'm asking now does not violate the forum rules."  And yes, I read the forum rules after my last thread, including the one in red, and felt this one was a new thread not a repost, albeit one based on the same abstract programming concept, and did not violated the highlighted rule, nor the one above it.

If you feel I have been negatively argumentative to you or any of the moderators, I apologize, and assure you it's just a case of interpretation being lost over the Internet.

Edited August 31, 2014 by WhatTicking

[Bert]

No, you have NOT done as you were told to do. You did NOT read the forum rules and you tried to re-post the request to get around the locked thread. So, how about you showing your sincerity retract your post in this tread. That way we will know you understand the rules and the moderators will know you are trying to be a team player. We are happy to help people, but the rules must be followed.

Edited August 31, 2014 by MBALZESHARI

[JLogan3o13]

That being said, let us wait for Moderator intervention to decide the matter...

[WhatTicking]

That being said, let us wait for Moderator intervention to decide the matter...

 

Aye, good call.

[Bert]

sigh...I see you want your ticket stamped....

Don't say I didn't warn you and even offered a way for you to deal with this without moderators getting involved.

Edited August 31, 2014 by MBALZESHARI

[WhatTicking]

sigh...I see you want your ticket stamped....

Don't say I didn't warn you and even offered a way for you to deal with this without moderators getting involved.

 

You're a good man, and I'm sure if I was in your shoes, I'd see good reason for taking the exact same stance against this thread as you.

[Bert]

You're a good man, and I'm sure if I was in your shoes, I'd see good reason for taking the exact same stance against this thread as you.

 

and yet you keep thinking you will get what you want here....

 

Tell you what - how about you do a bit of searching on other folks who have tried to use the same approach your using. (change how you ask the question so you can get the information you want so you can bot a game) The forum has a search feature. Easy to use.

http://www.autoitscript.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&search_in=forums

 

hell...here are a few links showing other folks who tried to do just what you are doing. This took about 30 seconds to get:

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'?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

'?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

 

As you can see, they failed. These folks were on the latest page in the banned area. Why do you think your case will be different? It isn't. You want to bot a game. We know that. Asking the same question over and over does NOT change that. Changing the appearance of what you want to use the knowledge for is NOT going to change your true intent.

 

I offered you an out. Your current position of not editing your post in this thread to remove the request re-enforces the perception that you refuse to follow forum rules. Do you honestly think this will end in your favor? REALLY? I know your a nice guy. I'm not trying to offend you. Take the out while you can. The longer you refuse to, the more it simply makes it look like you refuse to follow forum rules.

 

One other thing - If you really want to know the reason for the no game automation rule - there are MANY reasons. here are a few:

• AV companies flagging all AutoIt scripts as gaming/bot scripts when companies all over the world use AutoIt for legitimate purposes. Speaking from personal experience: A company Information Technology person gets very angry when their Anti Virus software flags their AutoIt scripts in production and starts breaking things causing lost productivity as well as having to work after hours to fix it. Would you like it having to work overnight to fix a problem like that?
• People paying money for games, playing legitimately (no cheating of any kind) and having other players attack them with game bots. In many cases ruining the gaming experience for that player. For example you are playing a first person shooter, you go to multi-play and getting instant-killed the moment you show up on the battlefield by a bot enabled player. Because you are playing legit and the cheater is not, you are nothing more that a target for a hunter. I've experienced this also and I HATE it.
• Gaming companies considering AutoIt a "game bot"language and treating it as such. It isn't of course but reputation is everything here. Do a search of the word "Virus" in the forum and you will see many threads on this subject in the forum.
• AutoIt's reputation. Thousands of companies all over the world use AutoIt to handle business processes. This saves billions in labor cost and speeds up productivity.
• Having AutoIt as a skill is considered a valued skillset in some circles. Having that reputation damaged by allowing discussions of game bots in the forum would hurt the folks who list AutoIt on their resumes.

This list is not exclusive and there are many more reasons why gaming botting is not discussed here.

[WhatTicking]

In order to prevent any possible "damage" that you fear this question may bring to the site, I will hold off on it until it is reviewed by a moderator(s).  I have moved the text to a pastebin for the time being to temporarily remove it from the site.  If a moderator wishes to lock this thread, feel free.  If a moderator reviews this case and is okay with a discussion of this abstract programming concept, please leave a short post saying so, and I will either move the text back, or start a new thread clear of mention of video games, since this one has kinda been derailed.

I don't feel this case is similar to the examples you posted, because those threads were still forum rule violating posts.  My first thread involved a video game.  It was a violation.  In order to keep such discussion away from the site, I have taken care to ask an abstract programming question in this thread instead.  Mind you that I AM actually interested in the information for the programming knowledge itself, as well.  I do like to expand my admittedly limited my skill set.

The reasons you list make sense for why one might dislike game automation, but to determine the validity or invalidity of a thread based on the intentions of its poster is textbook ad hominem, and I doubt the intelligent moderators on this site would fall into such a pattern of rule enforcement.  Threads are valid or invalid based on whether they break the letter and/or the spirit (ethos) of the forum rules, regardless of whether the poster is a good person or not, or what he/she intends to do with the information in the future (unless something illegal is in question, which is another matter).  At least, that's what moderators typically consider an unbiased approach on the forums I've visited.

Edited September 1, 2014 by WhatTicking

[Bert]

Your INTENT has not changed. That is the part you keep missing. You INTEND to use the knowledge gained to automate a game. That is the entire point here. Do you not deny that is what you REALLY want to do with the knowledge you seek?

It is a yes or no.

Edited September 1, 2014 by MBALZESHARI

[Melba23]

WhatTicking,

Your posting history to date:

You post a game-bot request - >I tell you we do not permit the discussion of such things here and point you to the Forum rules.

Despite the extremely plain English used in those rules:

 

Do not ask for help with AutoIt scripts, post links to, or start discussion topics on the following subjects:

[...]

Launching, automation or script interaction with games or game servers, regardless of the game

you start another thread asking if you can post the code again as "automation is explicitly permitted in the game in question" - another Mod >tells you quite clearly "No". (Note: threads were later merged)

Now, despite another perfectly clear section of those rules that you claim to have have read:

Do not repost the same question if the previous thread has been locked - particularly if you merely reword the question to get around one of the prohibitions listed above

you do post the same question again, just removing the game references. And to top it all you argue with one of the MVPs who gives you chapter and verse as to why this is not permitted.

I see that despite your apparent rational exterior lurks the standard botter persona - "I am a special case and the Forum rules do NOT apply to me". Well, despite your seeming belief in this fact, I am here to tell you that they do - and that you have far surpassed any flex that we are prepared to show you. Behaviour like this was one of the reasons that the current draconian rules were introduced - botters just cannot accept limitations on their conduct. >

So to explain what will happen now:

 

Usual scenario: Post a game-bot, get pointed the Forum rules, accept error. This is very common and results in no further action.

This scenario: Post a game-bot, get pointed the Forum rules, argue that the game allows it, get told "No" a second time, post the question again without the game references. This is much less common, but alas still too frequent, and always results in sanctions.

Given that you appear either incapable or unwilling to understand that our simple rules apply to you as much as any other member, even if you do not agree with them, there seems little point in temporarily banning you as in my opinion you would only return and restart the whole process. However, rather than immediately taking the nuclear option and removing you permanently from this community, I am going to limit my actions to a final warning.

 

If you post this question again, in any form, or if you break any more of the rules you will be immediately removed without warning or appeal. If you try to argue against any of this by opening yet another thread, the same fate will befall you.

So you can leave of your own volition, suffer an enforced departure, or possibly even accept that as part of a community you must follow their rules. Your choice - choose wisely.

M23