AutoIt Operating System Support

[NELyon]

I'm guessing you don't even have e-mail at school right? LOL.

If they gave us email at our school, all the potheads would be emailing them even though they are sitting next to each other, because they can't speak understandable english... or any other language for that matter.

Ok, enough derailing Jons thread

[/derail]

[Zedna]

I always said that I would support operating systems as long as I came across them as part of my job. Well, I've had to write a single pre-Windows 2000 script in the last two years - and that was just a WinWait/Send script. I've also starting thinking what the "big deal" would be if someone had to use 3.2.10.0 (current release) in order to write a script to support these systems - does it really need to be the latest version? I'm thinking not. Why not just leave a link up to the last Win95 compatible version on the website and move on?

I think AutoIt 3.2.11 rather then 3.2.10 would be better as last ANSI version

because in this version will be fixed many (mostly UDFs) problems/bugs.

[Anteaus]

My experience is that XP SP2 overwhelmingly predominates as the desktop OS. There are still a fair number of W2000 SP4 desktops, and I see W2000 being around for a long time yet, as it's a very serviceable platform despite its age.

Of the Win9x product-line, there are very few examples. So few, in fact, that I was thinking only yesterday that I might as well stop carrying the discs to support them in the toolkit, as they're so rarely used.

In the business sphere Vista has near-zero market penetration, though no doubt quite a few home users are struggling-on with it. And, I wish them luck.

On the server side though, a lot of sites still use NT4 Server, and when they do upgrade are mainly taking the Linux route. Cost, plus freedom from licensing/activation worries are the obvious reasons.

I think the previous comments apply though, in that we won't be developing many new scripts for NT servers, we already have what we need, so it's questionable whether new AutoIt releases need support it. Linux... now that's another matter, I see that platform gaining in importance.

Edited December 4, 2007 by Anteaus

[Confuzzled]

Several years ago, I hung out my shingle as an Independent Networking Consultant. My client base has grown from 10 hosts to several hundred, with a wide variety of hardware. When I run across a potential client still using win9x / NT4 , they are almost invariably doing so for specific reasons; typically related to high-cost interface cards with driver support that ended years ago.

Costs of these boards / systems are in the tens of thousands of dollars, and replacing them, the software they run , and rewriting the custom software written on the platform would run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. These systems fulfill business needs, have been exhaustively debugged, and with adequate supplies of spare parts, will continue to do so for years or decades into the future.

So, while I wholeheartedly disagree with the "no business worth its salt would run on [manufacturer] unsupported hardware", I still believe that Jon's desire to work with the latest tools and to cease development on enhancing features for dead operating systems is quite rational, and his desire to continue to provide a link to the latest compatible version is more than reasonable.

There are a lot more useful (and fun) things that can be done with AutoIT than continuing to futz with making things work under win9x/NT4. The businesses that are continuing to run these older systems, in my experience, are not doing so out of sheer cheapness or cussedness, and well understand the realities of drivers / software and operating systems, much better than the follow the herd crowd.

As an AutoIT user, anything that makes Jon (or any of the development team) not want to continue to grow this language is something that is _bad_ for the community.

All the best to all of you.

I agree. There is still a need out there, but the extra functionality that is being added to AutoIT3 is mainly focused on XP and Vista features, isn't it?

My suggestion: Make one last 95/98/98Se/ME/NT4 compatible version that doesn't need file rename/copy futzing to make it work, and go to AutoIT version 4 for future releases to differentiate.

[Valik]

...and go to AutoIT version 4 for future releases to differentiate.

That's not really a big enough to change to warrant product re-branding which is essentially what a jump to version 4 would be. Furthermore, it's not really a significant difference internally which would also imply a significantly different product revision.

[Wooltown]

If you are using an outdated Windows version, use an outdated AutoIT version as well.

I vote for removal of the Win 9x/NT4 code to make the AutoIT code more robust.

[Nutster]

One of the things I like about AutoIt 3 is that when it started, it was still supporting Windows 95 and 98, even though a lot of new software at the time was XP only, with some support for ME. I have a Windows 98 box that I still use. All the development I did was on that Windows 98 box. So what is going to be the last version of AutoIt to support Windows 9x?

[dandymcgee]

Hey Jon, I think your idea is an excellent one. The only pre 2K systems I've seen in the last 2 years are a few of my teachers from school's home computers (which we fix in our lab). Obviously none of them use AutoIt anyways... I do know there are still a few people, mostly younger people like myself (16), that simply can't afford upgrading to windows xp. I can't believe MS had the nerve to up the price of the XP SP2 upgrade pack to $100.00... when I bought my copy it was $80.00. Anyways that's my opinion...

Yep, every pc in my school runs Windows 98. Even our laptops

Lol... My school doesn't know what a "PC" is. Every computer in our school is a Mac, library, teacher's computers, labs. With the single exception being my first class where we have a huge variety of computers and OSs ranging from Macs to every version of windows from MS-DOS to Vista, even Linux.

[Jacek]

I'm still using about 12 NT4 workstations in my company. Autoit is the only one (AFAIK) which works on this system.

If it is possible to support this system for about 1 year (eg. to the end of 2008), I will be very happy.

If not, I will stay with current version and won't update.

[Xenobiologist]

Hi,

as I pointed out before, I love the idea of dropping those old versions!

JUST DO IT!!!

So long,

Mega

[GEOSoft]

I'm still using about 12 NT4 workstations in my company. Autoit is the only one (AFAIK) which works on this system.

If it is possible to support this system for about 1 year (eg. to the end of 2008), I will be very happy.

If not, I will stay with current version and won't update.

One solution (if you haven't already done it) is to compile your existing scritps for use on the NT4 systems now and then leave them alone. Of course that will mean that you can't write new NT4 scripts after the current release (or whenever it's dropped). Better get busy reading the crystal ball and figuring out what NT4 scripts you might want to write then get them written.

Any major change like tis is going to have a negative effect on someone but decisions like this can't be made based on the needs of the unfortunate minority.

EDIT: I should have added that AFAIK the last version to support older systems will still be available for download. There just won't be any new functionality added to it. Support will still be available in the forums.

Edited January 13, 2008 by GEOSoft

[BasicOs]

Hi folks, devs and all,

My first thought was to applause and repeat the same song that most are saying, ... and dream of new crazy things for AutoIt with new, new, new stuff... so on..

Thinking a little deeper, and paying some attention to my surrounding, not thinking of myself, but mostly of the world scenario I got some hipotesis. I will try to write them properly but I do not know if everybody will catch the "crazy" inside of it all:

You should make a more accurate approach to every single advantage, and any real disadvantage, and see if it is really good or not. So make some nice coding promises of some new special features please... hehe. :

I see many new good things, but I do not see many deep changes in Autoit-coding in the last months so any late 2007 version can be used with lot of success for any Autoit programmer for lots of apps. So changing for changing is not allways a good basis.

What I see around is some Windows-MS CRISIS or failure to develop and adapt to changes. I mean, it may be possible MS-Windows-growth could dissappear or become defeated with new products. Is it not a proof the downgrade of Vista into XP?, as Vista is not going to success as expected. May be is MS a prehistoric dynosar beginning to drop into an ICE-AGE? Or volcanic one.

Well you wonder right now, if MS is not going to success, what the hell is the new survivor in for the new "ICE-AGE", I mean which will be the new survivors AFTER Microsoft-ERA.

I have my theory of what will happen in future, say (in between 6-11 years), but you would not beleave me, you could think I am really mad. I will not say that mad ideas.

I will not go so far, but I would say only what is probably happenning now, end of this year and next 2009 and 2010 in advance:

Please, Think of a new allways long-expected OS, (after today´s LINUX and MS ERA), think of something working with all machines and devices, not only PCs, with fridges, laptops, handies, telephone, doors, cars, etc.... I mean something really realiable and USEFUL. NOT TALKING OF WINDOWS

I am thinking that the fight between TV and PC is all crap. Now are handyies winning more space, and late 2009 will be wonderful OSs in many HANDIES (TELEPHONES), something like PALM, IPAQ, or BlackBerry OSs. Many of them are now shipped with microprocessors similar to those in low end PCs.

As a summary, I think that we are going forward into a new non AUTOIT compatible based in MS Version TRAPS, we will open new doors, and close many more important old doors. Into a T road, closed.

What I have seen till now, is that any PALM,IPAQ or Blackberry OS, could run easily any win98 compatible exe with some kind of compatible layer or virtual machine, but not so easily Vista or more advanced one. I mean, by example, linux runs, wine .. easily win98 and XP exes, but not Vista ones....

I mean:

Now: w95 - w98/2000 - wXP - wVista

closed doors# Autoit is here

Here is Possible jumping into a compatibility layer/API of Blackberry or other winner OSs

Moving: w95 - w98/2000 - wXP - wVista

########closed doors#Autoit is here

Here is NO Possible jumping into a compatibility layer/API of Blackberry or other winner OSs. We got stuck in MS trap, closing doors

All that here, it is only sharing some creative HIPOTESYS. Hypotesis should be proved, I cannot probe that it all will happen but I mean there is some chance for it.

PCs will not dissapear so soon ... as there are alive users for them and programmers,. As same old MS-DOS and AT/386.

I will support Jon in his work as I find he will find Autoit+s way as ussual. Great and Best Job to MAKE this winner in MS-ERA: AUTOIT programming language, people, and tools. I mean Autoit is now more than a mere programming LANGUAGE, it is alive.

Salu2

[photonbuddy]

I also support the dropping of Win9x/NT4 support.

I liked the line 'If you are using an outdated Windows version, use an outdated AutoIT version as well.'

A lot of people still use Win2k because of its lack of authentication and WGA. I still use Win2k, but am about to upgrade to XP.

[MrCreatoR]

I liked the line 'If you are using an outdated Windows version, use an outdated AutoIT version as well.'

Well, it's relevant if it's for your own usage, but what if you making a program for others, you would like that every possible user be able to run your program on the system that he might use.

[Jon]

I've done this in our test version. The next beta will be Windows 2000 and above.

[GEOSoft]

I've done this in our test version. The next beta will be Windows 2000 and above.

Sounds good. One of my current projects MUST run on 9x boxes but I can solve that by installing the current version on another box for developing anything that has that requirement.

[sanjkoc]

I've done this in our test version. The next beta will be Windows 2000 and above.

Ohhhh. It's so sad. I'm gonna crying.

It is really so difficult to keep 9x compatibility?

Very bad day for me and my old PCs.

Thank you anyway.

Ciao. J.

[SlimShady]

The old versions are still compatible you know.

[sanjkoc]

The old versions are still compatible you know.

I know, I know, but so long playing with new stuff...

Again, is it so difficult to keep 9x compatibility?

Thanx for all. J.

[GEOSoft]

I know, I know, but so long playing with new stuff...

Again, is it so difficult to keep 9x compatibility?

Thanx for all. J.

Speed and size are becoming issues as well as the fact that 9x systems will not support new features. Coupled wth the fact that there are some limitations in AutoIt that are there simply because of older OS', and the sooner the limitations are gone the better IMHO.

Performance wise, see moneceres results here.

#533005 and that will just be the beginning of good test results that we see posted. I'm just going to keep the current release version around for those situations where I have to support 9x and for the rest I will use the newer versions.